I consider myself a Christian, but I think most hardcore Christians would probably find a lot of my beliefs to be blasphemous/heretical, as I tend to treat the teachings of the bible as a collection of moral philosophy and fables, and less as a dogmatic set of orders. I definitely put more weight on scientific history than biblical history.

Am I borderline retarded, Chronic?

B33FYB3AR wrote:
I consider myself a Christian, but I think most hardcore Christians would probably find a lot of my beliefs to be blasphemous/heretical, as I tend to treat the teachings of the bible as a collection of moral philosophy and fables, and less as a dogmatic set of orders. I definitely put more weight on scientific history than biblical history.

Am I borderline retarded, Chronic?
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You're one of the few exceptions to the rule... since you're a blaspheming heretic and all...

And you created "aweradular, so as far as I'm concerned, you can do no wrong.

YAY!!! I'm an exception!!!

B33FYB3AR wrote:
YAY!!! I'm an exception!!!
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you're not used to that already?

I would consider myself a Christian as well but I also have a BS in Geology so I don't take the genesis story literally for example. Scientific method definitely has a place and Jesus isn't magic.

The problem with arguing Christianity is that its opinion and faith based. You can't prove the existence of god you just have to believe it is so. That's the kicker, if you could prove it there would be no need for faith in it so there would be no Christianity because it's all based on belief in something that you can't prove and therefore have to take on faith. It's pointless to argue with hard core Christians. My mom and I have just gotten to the point we don't talk about it. There are things I believe that might make some of you consider me an idiot but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else to believe them. I however don't think it's my place to take some woman’s choice away, I don't think it's my place to say that two guy's or gal's can get married (more power to them), I don't think it's my place to keep someone from saying "boobies" on TV.

I think it has to do with the ego. People who are "enlightened" or not enlightened. There are a lot more people who are not enlightened. They get caught up in everyday drama and constantly kick their pain body. Take the ocean as a metaphor. There are those who defend themselves by schooling up, it's easier to think as a herd (blind faith). There are those that act like the predators, kill or be killed narcissistic ego's that need constant validation by attacking others. Then there would be the whales, enlightened, protected by a blanket of self confidence that needs not to attack others or be concerned with attacks against the ego.

One of the worst things we did was learn how to beat Mother Nature. We screw with the natural order and we breed flaws into our species. If, somehow, a race of radioactive T-rexes came about and started picking off stupid people and we were faced with using our intellect to fight for our own survival then we wouldn't have to worry much about the price of oil, the upcoming record of the Chiefs or whether or not Paris is using a magically new pink cell phone or not, or what the Muslims’ are doing in Iraq.

Personally, I have always thought religion was intended to be more individualized and not organized.

No one person can save you…but they can sure make you question your beliefs.

Don’t be a putz…save yourself.

Chuckles the Wonder Pony wrote:
I would consider myself a Christian as well but I also have a BS in Geology so I don't take the genesis story literally for example. Scientific method definitely has a place and Jesus isn't magic.

The problem with arguing Christianity is that its opinion and faith based. You can't prove the existence of god you just have to believe it is so. That's the kicker, if you could prove it there would be no need for faith in it so there would be no Christianity because it's all based on belief in something that you can't prove and therefore have to take on faith. It's pointless to argue with hard core Christians. My mom and I have just gotten to the point we don't talk about it. There are things I believe that might make some of you consider me an idiot but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else to believe them. I however don't think it's my place to take some woman’s choice away, I don't think it's my place to say that two guy's or gal's can get married (more power to them), I don't think it's my place to keep someone from saying "boobies" on TV.

I think it has to do with the ego. People who are "enlightened" or not enlightened. There are a lot more people who are not enlightened. They get caught up in everyday drama and constantly kick their pain body. Take the ocean as a metaphor. There are those who defend themselves by schooling up, it's easier to think as a herd (blind faith). There are those that act like the predators, kill or be killed narcissistic ego's that need constant validation by attacking others. Then there would be the whales, enlightened, protected by a blanket of self confidence that needs not to attack others or be concerned with attacks against the ego.

One of the worst things we did was learn how to beat Mother Nature. We screw with the natural order and we breed flaws into our species. If, somehow, a race of radioactive T-rexes came about and started picking off stupid people and we were faced with using our intellect to fight for our own survival then we wouldn't have to worry much about the price of oil, the upcoming record of the Chiefs or whether or not Paris is using a magically new pink cell phone or not, or what the Muslims’ are doing in Iraq.
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You put an interesting spin on everything, yo. The only place I disagree with you is in saying that your beliefs don't hurt you or anyone else... and maybe for you as an individual, that's true... but beliefs are the root of most conflicts. Por ejemplo: I believe my religion is superior, I believe my nation is superior, I believe my race is superior... dangerous lines of thought if you ask me.

Dangerous lines of thought indeed. However, it's not the thoughts themselves, it's the actions that go behind those thoughts. Maybe that's the big difference between these two: People who feel they have moral or religious superiority feel they have to publicly or socially act on those convictions (enter the people who like to tell me I'm going to hell for not believing in their religion) whereas people who feel their moral and religious beliefs are their own business don't generally do anything to incite public or political change towards their belief system. (I think I might have just reworded chuckles' ocean analogy...)

I'm waiting for the radioactive T-rexes by the way. I think in the end it would at least delay the dumbing down of our species.

Aenima anyone?

Chronic,

I wouldn't call it spin, or it's not intended to be. Wait, what would you say I'm spinning? I agree with your point of belief and taking actions on that belief. Luckily, as you pointed out, I do not match that mold, having kept my brain intact through years of Southern Baptism. I believe that everyone should be allowed to have their own opinions, joys, life, terms and conditions as long as they don't get any on anyone else. Obviously, unless you're an anarchist, there's need for some rules or mores for living together as a society, and if you have the capability to assist someone who is being force to have someone else's belief's sloshed all over them like a bad bukaki video then maybe you should come in with a towel and help them out. I know I'm jerking the wheel and driving this thread off the road but... the previous statement is why I'm torn about this war. Of course it was stupid of the powers to be to make it about weapons of mass destruction, or oil, or revenge for daddy or whatever. But if there was a tyrant murdering innocent people by the bushel, and if they had no recourse, and if we had the power to go in and stop that then that can't be a bad thing, can it? However, at some point you have to turn around and leave giving them the chance to take care of themselves... but at what point? When the pressure is off? Is it off? If you can remain neutral and just get the bully's off them and not pressure them to do what you expect them to do is that ok? It's a tangle, even for me, fo' sho'.

Barefoot,
My secret labs are working around the clock on Radioactive T-Rex's.

Chuckles the Wonder Pony wrote:
Chronic,

I wouldn't call it spin, or it's not intended to be. Wait, what would you say I'm spinning? I agree with your point of belief and taking actions on that belief. Luckily, as you pointed out, I do not match that mold, having kept my brain intact through years of Southern Baptism. I believe that everyone should be allowed to have their own opinions, joys, life, terms and conditions as long as they don't get any on anyone else. Obviously, unless you're an anarchist, there's need for some rules or mores for living together as a society, and if you have the capability to assist someone who is being force to have someone else's belief's sloshed all over them like a bad bukaki video then maybe you should come in with a towel and help them out. I know I'm jerking the wheel and driving this thread off the road but... the previous statement is why I'm torn about this war. Of course it was stupid of the powers to be to make it about weapons of mass destruction, or oil, or revenge for daddy or whatever. But if there was a tyrant murdering innocent people by the bushel, and if they had no recourse, and if we had the power to go in and stop that then that can't be a bad thing, can it? However, at some point you have to turn around and leave giving them the chance to take care of themselves... but at what point? When the pressure is off? Is it off? If you can remain neutral and just get the bully's off them and not pressure them to do what you expect them to do is that ok? It's a tangle, even for me, fo' sho'.

Barefoot,
My secret labs are working around the clock on Radioactive T-Rex's.
------------------

Maybe "spin" isn't the right word... interpretation?
I think all opinions and interpretations are "spin" I mean If you and I went to the same lecture and heard the same points from some guy, and then we were both asked to explain what it was all about to someone else, we'd both likely take different lessons from the speech and have very different ways of communicating those ideas...

In terms of this war, make no mistake, this is about a tyrant and oppression. A tyrant who used his military to wage a personal war against a family enemy, and oppressed the factual information about those efforts. heh

To me this war... and all the recent wars/police-efforts/etc are doomed to fail. I've been giving this a lot of thought recently. I'm all about secular humanism and living and letting live and what not... but it terms of war this belief structure is completely impractical, in fact it's full-on retarded.

You can not win a war by only targeting flag-waving, uniformed soldiers. War is supposed to be a sort of genocide. You haev to wipe out large enough numbers of a given population to get the others to convert to your way of thought/life. If you're really going to try to win a war (and I don't think we've tried to win any since Korea) civilians are fair-game. Women are enemy breeding factories, and children are enemies in training. Old people are enemy propagandists, and EVERYONE is a target.

This isn't a war, it's a distraction... Just like most of our military efforts of the last half century. The question is: what are they trying to distract us from?

Post edited by: Chronic, at: 2008/08/21 14:17